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Thread: Trust

  1. #1
    Weekend Warrior McLovin''s Avatar
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    Trust

    Ok, my next open discussion topic and food for thought. Let's talk about trust. When did you trust yourself and your abilities. When did you stop thinking about wadding it up while on rides/ track days. After your abilities when did you trust the tires; because I know those go hand in hand... or do they? Which comes first trust in yourself of trust in the tires; the old chicken vs egg...

    I had a moment(s) today when I had to trust my tires... or was it my ability. I was out on a ride today with some of you faster people, you know who you are, I lost sight just enough a couple of times in corners to not be able to see someone stick a leg out. I hit a small patch of fine gravel, and technically I guess I lost both the front and the rear, but it was small it just bucked me a little. I wasn't leaned over a ton, because I'm slow, but a decent amount for me. I was able to control the small slide and keep it moving rubber side down.

    Another caveat, after trusting, tires and abilities, etc. When did you get too big for your britches? When did the trust betray you? And how did you overcome that trust? Not necessarily talking about crashing here specifically, but close calls, or other learning moments that progressed the riding ability.

    Ready Go!

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    Old, grumpy mod cowasockee's Avatar
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    In our sport we have some level of trust when we leave the driveway. Clearly, the more trust you have in your equipment, as well as yourself, then the more reward you will get.

    However, trust can easily turn to hubris. Then it is easy to get in over your head and fall on your butt. Humility is a key trait in our sport as much as anything. It keeps you alive.

    Judgement is also a key component. I have used judgement, for instance, to tell myself that it is ok for someone to ride ahead of me because it's just not a great day.
    Sam

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    "doctors say gear saved his life"

  3. #3
    Deals Gap Junkie booger's Avatar
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    I know I'll repeat some info but I think it's just seat time.Ride the same roads frequently , change it up once in a while but slow down on roads you don't know so you will have a little more reaction time. If you rode as much as you work you would also be as good at riding as you are at your job. Everyone just says how hard can it be, you're just sitting there. Wrong.
    Trust just comes with trying a tire and telling yourself trust your tires for me. BE SMOOTH. Easy on and off the throttle. I had a bad wreck 1-2 times with Michelin tires but I didn't blame the tires. Gravel or too much front brake in the rain was the culprit. Buy a good street compound. They are fantastic for most of today's riders IMO. D.O.T's are for advance riders.
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  4. #4
    Track Day Star Oneg808's Avatar
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    For me its seat time for sure. The more I ride the more comfortable I am. Yeah there are days where Im wondering if I've ever ridden before lol. I try to push my self a little further every time I ride or at least try to. This gives me more trust in my bike and tires. Next time I ride, I know, yes I can take that turn at that speed etc. I also trust who I am following, I know if they make the turn I can also. Its been implemented in my brain that "you'll never be able to outride your bike" this gives me comfort knowing the bike and tires can handle it, but can I... Body position, brakes, throttle etc. Ive had a bad crash which left me with a concussion and a totaled bike. I went through gravel and there was no way I could have kept it up. It took me a lot of rides there after to regain trust. But eventually it came with more seat time! Im not the fastest by any means but definitely feel I have become a better rider all around in the past year or two. Oh and track days... lots of those will help! lol At least thats my excuse!

  5. #5
    Once hung out with Munky The Midget's Avatar
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    When "Booger" is screaming at me through the Sena " Don't slow down you pussy, you got this" so I just trust Boog an do as I am told.

    I'm not slow just conservative.

  6. #6
    Deals Gap Junkie booger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Midget View Post
    When "Booger" is screaming at me through the Sena " Don't slow down you pussy, you got this" so I just trust Boog an do as I am told.
    I want to use my “mod” power to edit this but it’s too funny.


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  7. #7
    Tech Admin Railing's Avatar
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    Trust, hmmm. For me, as said, it's seat time, and a slow progression, understanding my riding ability (you'll hear me say you percent of max ability). I know there is a certain level of riding I am capable of doing even on my worst day mentally. This doesn't take in to account external forces like cars or animals, but I know my skill set and reaction times, and understand my capabilities from riding for over 10 years, countless laps on multiple tracks, hitting the same street roads, over and over again, gives me a baseline. This baseline has gone from back of the pack, feeling and being the slowest, to progressing to my fun level that frankly should be taken to the track only if I rode at that "fun" pace. But that baseline, I will call this my comfort pace. This is the pace I can ride with just my throttle hand, other arm resting on the tank, just cruising, in and out of corners. If I have a pucker moment, if I need to clear my head, this is the pace I ride. Giving this a percentage, I would say it's 40% of my max riding ability. Still have to focus on external forces, but the riding, it's muscle memory at this point and I just ride.

    Tires. Put on a fresh set, go to a road you know, and ride at your comfort pace, feel the profile of the tire, know if it is a fast turn in because of a "pointy" profile, consistent round profile for a consistent turn in, or a flat tire that feels like you have to muscle it over. Know if the tire is meant for distance or for speed. The trust in a tire brand/type is earned by riding. I have never put on a fresh set of tires and gone balls to the wall. At the track, maybe 1-2 sessions on a new brand or type of tire, increasing from my 60-70% warm up pace, to my 90% track pace. I will say on rare occasion, transitioning from Bridgestone RS10 to Bridgestone R10 or Bridgestone Slicks, I made the transition over a few laps, but I still tested the tire.

    Percent of riding ability. I feel we all have a variable scale of riding ability. I personally see this as a 40-90% scale, but even then, that doesn't mean my 75% is the same from day to day, week to week, month to month, or year to year. It slides based upon total seat time, current seat time, and current mental/physical state. Overall the scale consistently gets faster, my 40% last year, is probably slower than my 40% this year, but that doesn't always hold true. 3 years ago I rode 15,000 miles in 4 months. My 40/90 scale was probably faster than it's ever been, and this year, expecting a child, I would say it's slowed a bit this year, just for a lack of seat time, generally only commuting on the bike, versus riding every nice day. I will say I use the 90% rule as my maximum on the track, and generally will say 80% on the street. If I were racing, I would say higher than 90% would be in the books, but I don't feel even at a track day it's worth riding much more. Always save something. This provides me a greater deal of trust in my own riding ability.

    Expectation of the street. I "expect" a car, animal, gravel, water, person, etc, to be in a corner when I'm entering a blind corner. I look at far as possible in the corner, and I make sure I have enough room to maneuver, brake, or avoid something in the road. I am aware of my position in the corner, knowing that the majority of slick chemicals from cars are in the middle section of the road, that most gravel is usually on the outside edge of the road, and that cars come over the center line... so wait, there is no good riding position on the road... correct.

    Gear. You need to trust your gear, and dress for the crash, not the ride. Every time I get on the bike, I ask, what is my acceptable riding attire. Is it long pants, a jacket, gloves, and helmet (my usual minimum), or do I need to wear a one/two piece suit, with race boots? Obviously I would hope that I would be wearing a full race suit if I was in a crash, but I also know that comfort is another thing as well, and it's not just comfort while riding, it's also comfort when I get off the bike as well. Going to a bike night versus riding Deals Gap is two different kits, but having trust in my gear helps.

    Mental. I have left for a ride more than once to turn around and come home without going more than a few blocks. I just didn't feel it. My mind was elsewhere I knew that a ride wouldn't clear it and I had too many things on my mind. I didn't trust myself, so I stopped myself from riding. I've had other times that in the middle of the ride I cleared my mind enough for random thoughts to come in to my head, and completely take me out of the game, or I've had a tire slip, close call with an animal, car in my lane, or misjudging my riding ability, not realizing what I thought was my 70% was actually my 90%... and I drop back to a comfort pace, and head home. I've also had the opposite, I was not having fun at the pace I was riding, so I increase faster and faster, and my trust in myself is more than there, and I am riding at yesterday's 90%, today at 70%.

    So "learning" your riding ability, builds your trust. Break down your riding to fundamental steps, throttle control, steering input, weight transfer, foot position, butt position, torso position, head position, full body position, lane position, speed, braking, corner entry, corner exit, etc. Break it down so you work on 1 or two things while riding, and let your comfort level adjust day to day.

    With all this said, my first real "pucker" moment was in August 2007. I was on the F-Loop on 421 going to Frankfort, right when the road starts to get fun, the first real sharp uphill right hander. I said at the beginning of that ride, "I am not riding as the back marker", and needless to say, I rode that ride at 90% right up till I hit that corner. I was having a ball, I had no problems keeping up with the person in front of me, and leaving the person behind me, I felt in the grove, and was even told I was riding so much better than I had before. I had roughly 4000 miles of riding under my belt, and I felt great. Then I started to enter that corner. There was a fresh patch job, and I hit a modest amount of road debris, and my tire slipped. It was the first time my tires ever slipped. I probably moved 6 inches, but it felt like feet. It scared me, I stood the bike up, and luckily... there was NOT a car in the other lane, I crossed the center line, and went all the way to the far side of the road, target fixated on the edge of the road and the guardrail, and dropped the bike off the edge, dumping me. I tried to run out of it, but it was faster than I could run, and I drive rolled, and back on my feet. My bike was actually still upright, causing little damage, and to me, scuffed my jacket, helmet, and tore a hole in my jeans, giving me road rash on my right knee. I rode to the gas station in Frankfort, I used sanitary napkins and electrical tape to cover my knee, and I rode another 150 miles that day. What did I learn... 1. crashing sucks, 2. Ride with more ability, 3. Understand that the bike can move around under you, and to learn what happens when something like tire slip happens. After going to the track (and in turn crashing two more times, both in 2008 at Putnam, in the same turn (7), a month apart), I started understanding how the bike moves, how it slips, how the tires react when hot versus cold, etc. It's all from seat time.

    So trust in general, is earned by riding, by learning. You learned that tires can slide from gravel or road debris, and that your bike will stay upright, and that it can move under you. If you "expect" that on every corner, you will slide a touch, and keep going. If you drop your guard, and don't expect it, then you'll have a pucker moment often. This is where learning what to do if you slide, because if it slides too much, a low side is a lot better than a high side.
    Michael
    2015 Ducati 1299 Panigale S (Street/Track)
    2007 Yamaha R1 (Street/Track)
    2014 Honda Grom (Pits/Street)
    2006 Yamaha FZ1 (Street)
    2004 Suzuki GSXR750 (Track)
    2000 Suzuki SV650 (Street/Track)

  8. #8
    The Naked MOD Ride Red's Avatar
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    For me "Trust" came with comfort. Anyone that knew me back when i had the 2008 CBR1000rr vs. my last few bikes could tell you im a different rider. It all came as one big wave to me. i found a bike i was comfortable on and pushed little by little. once you know where your happy place is you can push just a little outside of it until that becomes your happy place.

    Honestly for me being able to get a knee down constantly was a huge boost. it felt like reassurance that i was doing something right.and it allso have me a gauge as to if i was pushing the bike and tires or not.

    riding a motorcycle is 90% mental. At some point it clicks in your head and it just becomes riding a motorcycle and thats it. i never imagined when i started ridding with these idiots 10 years ago i would be able to hope on someones bike for a test ride though the gap and put a knee down in the 2nd corner bc its just another bike.

    I still remember the days thinking the road was going to suddenly end over every crest and every pebble in the road was as slick as ice. Seat time and comfort make that go away. Maybe not all the way gone but you at least have the confidence to deal with them accordingly.
    Last edited by Ride Red; 08-06-2018 at 10:52 AM.
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  9. #9
    MotoGP Legend Slimer's Avatar
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    I still wonder about wadding it up or hurting myself every time. Back when I was trying to get faster, I found someone that was slightly faster than me and just followed their lead. I knew my tires were the best/stickiest and I knew if the rider in front could make the turn at this speed, so could I. Once I got consistent and felt comfortable with that, I started following the next fast guy.

    Learning my lesson, I was chasing Jimmy V around Putnam, came in to turn 1 way too hot and ran out in the field. Luckily I kept it upright so I got back on the track and decided not to do that anymore haha.
    2009 Yellow/Blue Yamaha R1

    People always say to man up and grow some balls, balls are vulnerable.....man up and grow a vagina, those things can take a pounding!!

  10. #10
    AMA Superbike Champ B-Rad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McLovin' View Post
    Ok, my next open discussion topic and food for thought. Let's talk about trust. When did you trust yourself and your abilities. When did you stop thinking about wadding it up while on rides/ track days. After your abilities when did you trust the tires; because I know those go hand in hand... or do they? Which comes first trust in yourself of trust in the tires; the old chicken vs egg...

    I had a moment(s) today when I had to trust my tires... or was it my ability. I was out on a ride today with some of you faster people, you know who you are, I lost sight just enough a couple of times in corners to not be able to see someone stick a leg out. I hit a small patch of fine gravel, and technically I guess I lost both the front and the rear, but it was small it just bucked me a little. I wasn't leaned over a ton, because I'm slow, but a decent amount for me. I was able to control the small slide and keep it moving rubber side down.

    Another caveat, after trusting, tires and abilities, etc. When did you get too big for your britches? When did the trust betray you? And how did you overcome that trust? Not necessarily talking about crashing here specifically, but close calls, or other learning moments that progressed the riding ability.

    Ready Go!
    Everything that Railing said.
    Plus, the moment you loose respect/fear for your machine is the day you will get yourself over your head & its time to sell.

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